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Post by graybear on Jan 18, 2011 14:02:40 GMT -6
Yep, I'm a member. paid up to Ol' Stone Bear, Maybe he just took the money and run. He was just barely on the east side of the river....Maybe he just had a mailbox on the east side of the river and he lived in Cali-fun-ya.. I don't know. There is another 'header' at the top of the page says there no messages,but even when I was leaving messages...it said there was no messages. But the Happy Birthdays keep getting posted but I guess that could be a part of the original program and it just the internet doing it.(?) Anywho I keep posting just in case someone does come along, I can try to make a connection. I figger, if its here and somebody want to make a connection....Lord knows I don't have anything better to do. And it only takes me a minute to check. I have time and information, but my informer from Tahlaquah has moved to Tulsa, so I don't get the same info I used to. I'll probably never go to Oklahoma again and I still have a place on 9 acres over in the big Piney's on the Lake, I'll probably never go back there either. But If I can catch anyone and head them a good direction thats better then talking to the walls....and thats what I normally do Ol'Graybear
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Post by MountainBear on Jan 18, 2011 16:53:17 GMT -6
Osiyo, GrayBear After I retired I sort of realized how much tradition has been lost since I was growing up. Of course I had somewhat traditional grandparents, Youngsters 3 or 4 generations later hardly understand what a Native American is. In the last few years I have attempted to practice and teach what I can. I still can't sing Amazing Grace in Cherokee while making biscuits like my grandmother used to do. Once lost hard to replace. I had given a lot of thought to associating with a NA group. That is how I came to this site, wanted to meet people first and there is a chapter not far from me in Norfolk Va. 2Shadows is listed as Chief. It my understanding that all of the HQ stuff is at Katey Lee's place in OK and Stone Bear is on the road. It would be nice if there was a place to go and meet folks. Anyhow there must a reason why everyone is not here, I do not have any ideal how many members UNC has but some should use the site.
Take Care......MB
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Post by MountainBear on Jan 18, 2011 17:03:37 GMT -6
GrayBear...........if you don't have this and are interested...........it has info all the time The Cherokee Nation Tribal Council meets tonight at 6:00 in council chambers at the W.W. Keeler Tribal Complex in Tahlequah. You can view tonight's meeting, as well as other scheduled committee meetings online by visiting www.cherokee.org and selecting the "streaming events" tab at the bottom of the page.
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Post by graybear on Jan 19, 2011 15:29:21 GMT -6
I'm starting to get the idea it was set up as a scam, take a few peoples Money and run. But when Katey Lee was on line she was pretty sincere with her writings. She never got very political and her Mr.(Jim) would give opinions. But the Nation has pretty well done away with tradition and has people focused on learning the language. So a person can forget about serious communications when folks start trying to use a language they don't know and want to say something strongly and only remember a few words and thats, water, food and bathroom. Tell some-one to duck and they'll look for a bird flying over. You can get some really bad headaches that way. I know for the years I lived in southern Arizona that Mexican fella's didn't have a word for 'shockabsorber' and didn't speak american english so you had to go outside and look under the car where he was pointing and trust me we all learned when they called us a bad name, so you could tell them you didn't have one that fit their car. So I really know about language miscommunications. the whiteman has a way of misdirecting any effort that Ndn's have toward becomeing united over. So far its looking like this leadership went the way the whiteman is pointing. So I guess we can just visit here until we can find one more, then one more, maybe we can still have a UNITED Cherokee nation, just take more time then we thought. I can do that.....So-i E-ga Mountain Bear...another day
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Post by MountainBear on Jan 19, 2011 17:47:12 GMT -6
Osiyo, GrayBear I might not say this effort is history yet, it takes a huge amount of determination and willpower to pull this into something. Stone Bear, as I understand things is having a bit of rough time, but it will pass. He trusted the Lees and I am sure they are good folks. At one time the Federal Approved Tribes wanted to do away with each and every effort that was not a part of themselves. I was wondering if that may have influenced the activity here.
Go Easy........MB
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Post by graybear on Jan 20, 2011 12:29:14 GMT -6
Si-yo Mountain Bear, I don't know, when everyone disappears and no one comes back to say there's a problem. Sounds a lot like modern politics, so when someone does say something its too late to do something about it. The whitemans Cherokee can say anything but they don't want close scrutney because they can't pass inspection. Most of them are less then 1/16th. by birth. When the Keetowah were the old blood and they said if you have one drop of the Cherokee blood and lived with a Cherokee heart you are Cherokee. Thats the way most westerners are. I can't even guess how many folks I know"part" Cherokee and they have the heart to go with it. They just can't find the correct name on the rolls. My Grandmother is on the rolls. My father was connected in the 1930's but thats during a period of disorganization so I don't know where he shows up. I don't think too many records began to be organized until after 1938 and in 49 the Nation was re-established . While certain factions wanted to hold out for tradition and agreements another faction of 'YES' people went ahead and accepted what was offered. Leaving a lot of families out. The Wilsons and Smiths were well established before the 1930's but lost everything to THE bureaucracy and it was not returned on the new Nation agreements. But if this could be organized and directed toward specific goals, we could easily out number the nation. There's more'part' Cherokee by far if collected and given a goal. Thats what I find disturbing, nobody that has taken a title or position is speaking or finding a goal to attend. It can be as simple as finding new members and chalking them-up on a score board. Everybody is having hard times, many of the nations are trying to establish LAND, according to the UN agreements. Land where a people can stay alive, growing and harvesting for the good of the people. Not the Cherokee Nation, not the United Cherokee Nation. So all a guy can do is hold on to a message avenue and hope a great leader comes along. Cherokee prophecy says the land will return to the people but it doesn't say.....the people will return to the land. I like the coast of Oregon, but I'd go anywhere to help build and establish a community that is trying to create a nation of souls that just want rights and freedoms back. So if you have nothing it because you've done nothing, but what you do is not taxed or taken because a bureaucracy didn't approve your effort at a fee response. There's little reason to try for any goal with-out a focus of the goal and souls to achieve it. With just a few souls we could claim an abandoned missle siloe and build a city in it. For one people that focused on one goal. Any abandoned federal installation. there a lot up on the old D.E.W. but there's nothing a person can do there. For now we can only watch and listen and maybe catch a few who care. Ol'GrayBear
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Post by graybear on Jan 20, 2011 12:51:15 GMT -6
Here's an article where the courts decided blacks with no Cherokee blood have all the rights of Cherokee because it was in the 1866 treaty. Tribal court rules against Cherokee freedmen amendment Written by ROCHELLE HINES, Associated Press Monday, 17 January 2011 10:26
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Marilyn Vann and a small group gather to protest in Oklahoma City, Thursday, June 4, 2009. (AP File Photo) OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) – A Cherokee Nation court on Jan. 14 overturned an amendment to the tribal constitution that denied citizenship to non-Native American descendants of tribal members' former black slaves.
Tribal District Court Judge John Cripps ruled that a 145-year-old treaty between the tribe and the U.S. government provided that “freedmen” and their descendants were to be citizens of the Cherokee Nation, so the amendment passed in March 2007 was “void as a matter of law.”
Native American tribes are allowed to determine membership based on blood or lineage, “unless it is restrained from such determination by limitation of treaty or statute,” Cripps wrote in the four-page ruling. “Such is the case in this instance.”
Diane Hammons, the tribe's attorney general, said the tribe respectfully disagreed with the decision. The tribe is based in Tahlequah, in northeastern Oklahoma.
“We believe that the Cherokee people can change our Constitution, and that the Cherokee citizenry clearly and lawfully enunciated their intentions to do so in the 2007 amendment,” Hammons said. “We are considering all options, including our right to appeal to the Cherokee Nation Supreme Court.”
Tribal spokesman Mike Miller said Principal Chief Chad Smith wouldn't have any comment.
Marilyn Vann, president of the Descendants of Freedmen Association, said the group was happy with Cripps' decision. The organization represents descendants of former slaves of the Cherokee Nation and other tribes.
“We feel saddened that so many resources and so much effort has been used to dis-enroll the freedmen people, but we are grateful that there are some officials of the tribe that are willing to study the law and fairly interpret it, and are willing to advise tribal leaders to abide by it,” Vann said during a telephone interview Jan. 14.
Some Cherokees and members of other tribes in the southeastern U.S. were slaveholders, and they allied with the Confederacy during the Civil War in the 1860s. After the war ended and slavery was abolished, the Cherokee Nation and the federal government signed the Treaty of 1866, which said the freedmen and their descendants “shall have all the rights of native Cherokees,” the ruling noted.
The issue has been debated and litigated over the years, and two lawsuits are pending in federal court in Washington.
Jan. 14's decision came in the case of Raymond Nash, a non-Native American descendant, and more than 200 others who received notices after the amendment passed that their citizenship was being terminated. There were so many who challenged the election outcome that the court appointed a lawyer to represent them and treated all appeals as a class action, said attorney Ralph Keen, who represented the group.
The federal court cases are separate, said Keen, who called the decision a victory for his clients and for treaty rights.
“I believe the ruling strengthens tribal sovereignty because it shows that tribal courts can take on difficult, divisive issues and maintain a strict adherence to the rule of law, regardless of popularity and political influence,” Keen said.
There's a good case where enough people stood for one goal and got the court decession to favor on treaty ground....how-ever there are other parts of the treaty that are overlooked. This decission is based on Cherokee responsibility. Not U.S. Government rsponsibilities to the treaty. Graybear
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Post by MountainBear on Jan 20, 2011 14:23:19 GMT -6
Osiyo, GrayBear What is needed is a determination by a number of folks to make change. No one needs another Government level, just do things within the existing framework. Churches have a number of folks participating and they build nice big buildings and have tax exempt groups that operate within. Plenty of ways to be tax exempt. It takes a few folks each giving up a little for the good of all. That is a very hard sell but it works. At some point the numbers get on the good side and things get easier. Yes, I saw that article the other day, its not over yet.... Did you get the meeting tape to run? I could not.
Oh Well..........MB
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Post by MountainBear on Jan 20, 2011 17:56:40 GMT -6
What do you think......
Cherokee protests raid on bingo hall Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:40 PM By HOLLY ZACHARIAH
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH Oliver Collins, principal chief of the Tallige Cherokee Nation in southern Ohio, says the sacrifices of his American Indian ancestors give him the right to do what he wants on his land in Lucasville — even if it is running a bingo hall without a license.
The Ohio attorney general's office disagrees.
Armed with a search warrant, state agents and the Scioto County sheriff's office raided Cherokee Bingo Hall on Rt. 23 yesterday and shut the place down.
The Tallige, who are not recognized by the federal government as an American Indian tribe, own the Lucasville building and have operated the bingo hall since 1999. They always had a license to do so. This year, however, Collins refused to pay the nearly $4,000 licensing fee.
Story continues belowAdvertisement “They are trying to assimilate us by hurting us in the pocketbook,” Collins said yesterday. “We advance our nation, we fight for our people, and we are a religious organization. But they are still trying to kill the Indians.”
The bingo hall did $1.58million in business from November 2005 to October 2006, the last period for which its gaming figures were available. The Tallige listed profit at $15,520. Among the 16 bingo licenses in Scioto County, its earnings were second-highest but its profit among the three lowest.
Bingo money has been used to teach the community about the tribe, to foster Indian adoptions, to hold religious conferences and to sponsor dance teams, said Collins, 68.
He said he expected trouble for refusing to buy the license, but he didn't think deputies would swarm his place, confiscate his tax records and take the $10,000 he had in a safe.
“I thought they would recognize I was doing only what I am entitled to do,” he said.
Monica Moloney, an assistant chief in the charitable-law section of the Ohio attorney general's office, said she doesn't recall a bingo hall ever claiming it didn't need a license because of its American Indian affiliation.
Federal laws do allow for some gaming on certain land owned by American Indian tribes. It has been a contentious point in Ohio when tribes wanted to open casinos.
Moloney said authorities shut down the hall in Lucasville only after repeatedly warning Collins that he was violating Ohio's gaming laws.
She wouldn't discuss details of what was taken during the search and referred questions to the Scioto County sheriff's office. No one there returned phone calls.
Moloney pointed out that Collins' Tallige tribe isn't federally recognized, a designation bestowed by the Bureau of Indian Affairs once ancestry is proven.
Collins said his tribe has chosen not to seek such a designation. The lack of it doesn't change the fact that they are Indian, he said.
hzachariah@dispatch.com
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Post by graybear on Jan 21, 2011 13:19:24 GMT -6
Si-Yo Mountain Bear...there in two postings are two ends of a sharp stick. One says, blacks are Cherokee because the treaty of 1866 says Cherokee will accept blacks as Cherokee. The other says Cherokee are not Cherokee because they don't pay for the right to be Cherokee. If there was enough dollors for the politically rich to share....there would be no way the Sheriff could invade that property, Like Casino's that pop-up from no place and confiderated people get positions of authority because they accept the rich white mans proposition. Look at the Mescalero and ask them where there money has gone. My three grandchildren get two cheques a year when the profits are decided. But huge amounts just evaporate and only the Apache people are left to wonder where has all the money gone....there is no trail to follow. No rights to pursue, no redress of grievances. Its easy to buy a few with a promise and a Sheriff is as easy to buy when he is taught from the movies...that the only good Ndn is a dead Ndn. Look and see...in Oklahoma the Ndn girls are told to marry a white man, life is easier. Mothers teach them this. The patriot game goes on amongst constitutional Americans, white Americans that want their original rights guarenteed under the original documents. When left wing writer speak of them, they too are called "indeginous" people....I guess meaning born here and not wanting to change to the the world order. We will see some interesting shuffling go on now for maybe one more year. We just have to hold on to what we have and watch and listen, you see this same people who cannot be because they are not the way the white man says you must be, to be. I believe still'What goes around comes around' so we will watch and maybe help it come around when we see a good leader willing to stand for Something.....
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Post by MountainBear on Jan 21, 2011 14:41:48 GMT -6
Osiyo, GrayBear He was not recognized as a tribe, knew that would not happen, and all was lost for a 4000 dollar permit. That has to be pure greed working. I see another person has posted, maybe things will pick up. In a bit of a rush today, got to go for now.
MB
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Post by graybear on Jan 23, 2011 14:11:05 GMT -6
Was noticing the UN is in town, here is where a people needs to be careful, this is the foundation for the back scratching while they pick your pocket deals. American Indian, Alaska, Hawaiian Native and other Indigenous Peoples living in the U.S. are invited to present information to the Rapporteur during her visit to Pine Ridge and in the cities listed below. The National American Indian Housing Council in Washington, D.C., is also hosting a policy briefing for the Rapporteur on November 7th in which various Tribal and community leaders will also participate. I've been present at some of these activities, listened as they said what they would like to see happen and noticed they didn't keep notes when some-one was asking for recognition of a need and after you leave the room nothing comes from the time spent and there is no place to obtain follow-up on questions that come-up. Its sort of a deal where it is hinted to as what is about to happen to you and theres nothing you have to say about it. So the Lakota are nobodies fools, I think the UN will have there hands full trying to pull the wool over their eyes. Interesting to watch.. Hope all is well Mountain Bear, its like spring time here. Nice temperatures and sunny days. Economy is tight no matter what you might hear on mass media, still need to find better items for retail......Later O Gi Na Ni Li
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Post by MountainBear on Jan 23, 2011 16:38:13 GMT -6
Osiyo, GrayBear A lot of thought is needed before one starts to crusade for something. Folks will need to understand what direct action and by whom will result in the desired outcome. Take that fellow who refused to obtain the $4000 business permit. All other like business had to get a permit. Just refusing was not going to get the action he desired. He needed to lobby and get the requirements changed to allow for non-permit operations, then if he was to fall into that group OK. All could be done behind closed doors with very little ruckus. The most successful efforts will appear effortlessly but are carefully crafted pressures to obtain the results. I see folks all fired up, ready to fight and the recipient of it all cannot alter the process. He just carries it out, someplace else has crafted the process and that someplace else must change it.
Be Well My Friend ...........MB
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Post by MountainBear on Jan 24, 2011 16:25:15 GMT -6
Osiyo, GrayBear The other day I noticed you are a Junior Member on this site, congratulations. Near as I can tell you are the only one.
Be Well..............MB
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Post by graybear on Jan 25, 2011 11:26:31 GMT -6
You'd think at my age I'd be a senior member, but Hey! being a junior for a change is not such a bad feeling. I been doing up my NEW week chores. Changed my front window, made my orders that should finish out the month, made new signage for some of the stuff I'm lowering the price on and rearranged some of the other inventory, now I'm ready for anything. Well maybe not anything, there appears to be some stuff on the horizon, politically, I may not be ready for. But I'll keep smilin'till then...Been looking for new dates, i'm leaving them up-above and want to keep this site going at least a little so we can build an empire...Think Big
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