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Post by seeker on Feb 17, 2011 16:38:22 GMT -6
Hello all, I am just now looking towards my background. For years I have ignored it. Thanks to friend in New Mexico I am now seeing. My grandfather when I was young( he passed whem I was 12) always called me "He who speaks like Thunder" I guess because I cryied alot and loud as a baby then as I grew I spoke loudly, truthfully and directly without fear of reprisal. It has cost me alot over my life time, but I would not change it. I am looking for the Cherokee pronouciation for this as he was of the nation. It I feel was givin to me by him and a few friends of his in the movie industry. Jay silver heels and Chief Red Cloud to name a few. They also felt the name was proper for me back in the early 60's. Thanks so much
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Post by MountainBear on Feb 17, 2011 20:35:13 GMT -6
Osiyo Welcome to the site, make yourself at home. Are you in New Mexico? I will allow someone with deeper understanding of Cherokee to furnish your name.
Welcome.....MB
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Post by graybear on Feb 18, 2011 10:42:31 GMT -6
My grandmother said a sound like this ekwadi ka nei sdi.. for some one talking a boast or too fast or too loud. I used to repeat it to my little brother as a joke. Her mother said the words to her father and she applied it where words were spoken other then normal. she pronouced the 'i' sound long. wad i Ne i sd i I have never saw it anywhere just use to say it to aggrivate my little brother. He yelled a lot...my nephew talks too loud now but if I say it to him I can't repeat his reply and he says it in sorta english.....
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Post by seeker on Feb 18, 2011 11:33:29 GMT -6
Thanks for the replys. I hope to find the way the phrase is used and stated.
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Post by seeker on Feb 19, 2011 17:04:57 GMT -6
No I am not in New Mexico now. I have lived in Los Angeleas for many years. Met my wife here. She is spanish, french and Yaci. My grand father also stated all my life I reminded him of a screech owl...lol..( noisy..only was to big. I weighed 10 lbs 9.5 oz at birth. I am and have always been Large. 6'0' 250 now. Same as my high school days only placed in worse places...lol..lol...
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Post by graybear on Feb 21, 2011 15:38:27 GMT -6
Now your called Seeker...If we could get more folks to write in here, we could learn many things..but most people read but don't comment. Not sure what they're doing. We want to create a unified voice that can carry weight in politics. But at the moment no one seems to have an opinion accept myself and Mountain Bear. We want to keep things dated so for who-ever find us will know its a good place to say what is on your mind and maybe learn a new way of looking at things. or teach a new way...both are good things...write often if you have the time..something will be a magic word and more people will come back....You will see Mountain Bear and I say O-Si-Yo or Si-Yo, thats Cherokee greetings. Some times I sign off with So-i E-ga..thats leaving but not good-by...more like 'another day' slowly we will pick-up Cherokee words, but now my granmother is gone many years and only one of my regular customers is Cherokee...more times as not I talk with Mescalero but they speak Tex-Mex or english and cuss in Apache.... :-) Gray Bear
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Post by seeker on Feb 23, 2011 10:48:33 GMT -6
YES political power would be nice. Problem is all the past agreements we are held too. Also such discrimination amoung all the nations as well as lack of unity. Nothing was learned from the unity of the win over the 7th calvery. The nations continue to fall for government planted contraversy. It does not matter what tribe, where or even how much blood flows in your veins, it is where your heart goes that matters. My grandfather always told me " You can truely know what's in a mans heart, by the way he treats the Animals and the earth". Now with the Casino's the tribes are even more devided, another ploy that worked. Younger one's disrespect the elders and lose sight of the REAL PRIDE; LIFE it's self in harmony. The old saying is " UNITED WE STAND, DEVIDED WE FALL". This proved its self in the nations history and untill that issue is removed, we are still doomed. SORRY if I sound depressed...lol... not just realistic. Since I show most of my irish side in looks I have sceen what is really thought of the nations and their peoples. No matter if Yaci, Cherokee, pawnee, black foot, crow,etc. All the same to Government. The illegal imigrants and foreighners are accepted and respected more than True Americans of the Nations. But a ot of the time as with our demise in history "WE ARE TO BLAME for THAT". If anything should have been learned of today it is from the 70's when ARM was a threat to the Government. They feared the one thing the have to stop at any cost, Nation UNITY as ONE!!!
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Post by MountainBear on Feb 23, 2011 13:37:25 GMT -6
Osiyo......Well said, indicates a good understanding of the situation........MB
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Post by graybear on Feb 23, 2011 13:49:52 GMT -6
That is a very good observation...The white bureaucracy sets up and recognizes only that Ndn leadership. Thats why the present Cherokee Nation is patronizing the people that want some recognition...learn the language, learn you heritage,learn your history..BUT the only parts that apply are what that bureaucracy want you to be aware of. Meanwhile more original treaty rights are lost. I have three grandchildren that are members of the Mescalero people from New Mexico. there cheques are directly related to profits from the Casino. Every thing else is shut down. The saw mill, mining, ranching rights to use the land are all being taken away and Casino is being plucked so heavy that the people are getting less and less. Rights to land is the biggest movement by the bureaucracy. No place to raise livestock, grow gardens or move family to. But the drug movement comes right in and promises young people a chance to "get rich" by getting unlawful drugs into circulation on the reservation. I knew one person personally that was in law inforcement on the Warms Spring Reservation. He commented how much easier the people are to handle...under the influence. When the land is obsorbed into history and no longer related to a race of people. Those people are obsorbed into history. And they will be left out of written history. So now if the Great Spirit returns the land to the people what people will be here to claim it? The people with the heart to stand together as one voice and one opinion. (?) (?) But there has not been a place where for the ideas to be expressed it need to start somewhere.....Maybe here. In the 60's we could do it at Pow-wows but no-one there is much interested and what they are interested in won't help the future. Graybear
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Post by seeker on Feb 23, 2011 16:59:46 GMT -6
It is interesting that I oo am older. Not young as before when I ran from my real life. The DRUG situation is the same as the alcohol used back when it all started to confuse and devide. I do have a few now and then, lol.. but never lose sight of the realities of the life. Drug money is big and easy, fast, no work have to be done. Young ones only know what it takes to be accepted in any circle, GREEN PAPER. MONEY. The real pride has to be inside, it has to be ignited with the first steps, the first voice. HOME SCHOOLING should be used for truth. But, it is all up to the people as well. The ones who are the middle level. They have to beleive, be proud and brave. It is fine to accept others and their ways of life, but it is not acceptable to ABANDON, DIS_RESPECT or to COVER your own WAYS. I KNOW! It took my Grandfather and others comming back to me in a vision with hard direction and non acceptance of what I was doing for me to see. Perhaps more realization for little ones would have a positive enforcement. It is hard to fight the spirit of temptations, especially when it is so easily obtained. The parents MUST LEAD WITH PRIDE, KNOWLEDGE, UNDERSTANDING and UNITY!!!! Yes there is the hardest word in all language, UNITY as ONE. Agression, hate, revenge are all POISION to the very roots of the nations... look at history. Even our own was tricked into hunting us like deer. For me both sides were the same. the Irish were too hunted, killed by the English as mad dogs. Some history: In ireland it was the same and scotland. They fought each other and the differant CLANS (Tribes) did as well due to PRIDE, all the time the english (UNITED with the WELCH) killed, torchered and enslave them. Even taking away their language as well, GALIC. Finally when 1 man UNITED them, William Wallace. The rest is history. This is where the saying " GOT OFF SCOT FREE" comes from. Meaning if a english was caught for a crime they simply accused a Irish or Scots of the crime and they were punished or killed for that crime while the englishmen was excused. No irish or Scotsman could marry without permission of the magistrat who Slept with the wife to be the night before the wedding. This was to try to "BREED OUT" the Irish and Scots. Sorry, but It's history on my Both Sides..............
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Post by graybear on Feb 24, 2011 10:54:33 GMT -6
Si-yo Seeker... there is no denying history, every place on the globe has like examplies of pride and narrow minds. But when the Scotts got behind William Wallace with one voice and one message for rights and freedoms uninterrupted, Bannock Burns was as decideing as Little Big Horn. Even tho there is history that shows that a people standing together for a cause with one voice is worthy. Too many people have been loaded with doubt. Loaded with welfare and food stamps and blankets with yellow fever. Anytime a bureaucracy get big enough to give you everything you want in life ,its big enough to take it away from you. So its difficult to give a people a message that they can believe in because almost everything people need requires adult attention and responsibility. Too many don't want to be responsible, and are under the influience of drugs and/or alcohol. So if you give then 20 acres and a well, it would just get sold to buy drugs, alcohol and cigarettes. They wouldn't put in a garden...unless it was something to smoke, they wouldn't raise a hog or a stear or buy chickens, this generation just wants to sit and wait for the free hand out. I'll be 67 next month and when I was in my early teens, we had 1500 acres in the mountains, we raised cattle and sheep. In the late 50's early 60's, my brother and I would have to rush down during lambing to shoot wild dogs...Dogs that had, been domestic and there masters stopped feeding them. they could smell the lambing season and would rush in to kill and feed.....Thats whats going to happen to the indeginous people. When the white man stops feeding them, the will go on the hunt but don't know how and like the blacks in the WATTS they will race in and beat their own. And when they are spent of energy, more drugs will suddenly become available and they will go back to zombie status. Until the rich want more damage done and some-one else to take the blame. It makes me sad that more people don't read and understand history, thus it is allowed to repeat itself....over and over and everything our ancestors believed in and stood for is lost to the wind.....The ol' Gray Bear.... signin off for the day...
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Post by seeker on Feb 24, 2011 12:17:53 GMT -6
It is the way of the Government to CONTROL the masses. With Drugs usually and then with the never ending hand outs. YES it is true of todays younger generations. I am 56 and see a hugh differance in PRIDE and self Respect of each individual amoung the younger generations. At first it was mostly directed at males, but now even the females are so caught up in making sure they disrspect men, humiliate them and disregaurd their design in biological DNA. This is why the government makes it illegal to punish or show your child Realities of life. That way children follow what they see others do, what the poisioned so called teachers in the systems say and not their own parents. Children are like young Bears. They need to be taught disapline, fighting skills, to care for theirselves, HONOR, and truth. It saddens me when I hear and see young males claiming to be so PROUD of their blood. They claim how fearless they are and how much of a MAN they are, yet they wait for the free posions from the government, steal from their own, attack their own, refuse to support their own children and stay DRUGGED at any cost to lives. This is NOT a man in any BLOOD LINE. It is simply a slave. The religious groups of the europeans are full of lies and counterdiction. OPEN YOUR EYES. Only" SHEEP are to be led, not MEN". If you beleive in 1 God, do you think he is only inside a buliding where he serves some mans personal plan? He is the Air, The tree, the waters, the grass, the sun, the clouds, the animals, the stars, the moon. He would be EVERYWHERE. I beleive in a supream power, but respect all representitives of the forces. Yes, I am afraid the total control is comming SOON. The camps have already been bulit in many state locations for marshal law they call it. The fight will not be great, but some of us ELDERS can make it REMEMBERED! I can live from the Land, plant, hunt if need be, fish. I will survie as will my wife. She too knows the ways even though we have been in a city for many years we have NOT FORGOTTEN. Seems grandfathers are the true knowledgeable ones as it was hers as well who taught her the ways of her people. My Family had 6 sections (630 acers to a section) in Quamada New Mexico around Pie Town. Until the Government found a way to cheat them out of it for BLM needs. Along with Military so called war time needs.Afterwards, it was never returned to my Grandfathers family and can never be. Promise BROKEN. Not suprising at all. Unfortunatly most americans who do not understand the Nations view us as simply "A CONQUERED PEOPLE". They beleive "To the VICTOR goes the SPOILS". Since we do not unite like Mexicains, Blacks and almost every other group we suffer their humiliation. Look how they give these people what the demand. Racial profialing if someone says something about a Black or Latin leader. Yet everyday, everywhere they insult our leaders. Crazy Horse beer, Washington Redskins, Indian love juice (referance to coors beer) and so many more worse. Yet our people cannot get the same reaction as others, instead when challenged in court, they find since we are a so called conquered enemy/ ward of the states we have no grounds. But they gave us CASINOS. Why? for their percentage and make another weak habit GAMBLING. It has divided the Nations even more. I see the drunks, drugged individuals fighting eachother, losing all their money. Then they steal, rob or sell everything to keep going. To many young males of today they call this PRIDE. HUMMMMM? Perhaps loco weed has been applied to much.......
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Post by MountainBear on Feb 24, 2011 13:12:15 GMT -6
Amen.......you 2 got wheels turning. It is up to each individual, plus the collective effort of the group to alter the situation. A lot of what you say is applicable to all folks, not only natives. Just look at the waste in the young at police stations. Identification and awareness is what is needed, how can that take place with everyone mistrusting everyone else? Out for only themselves.
Easy Ahead.......MB
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Post by graybear on Feb 25, 2011 12:55:03 GMT -6
Si-Yo Seeker...Across the street from me and away west is a burnt building. The cafe side burnt but not the bar side. Its kinda funny because theres a big sign that says"a smoke free inviroment" and the roof is burnt off . The symbol of this is like our society. Its sitting idol. Do you just tear down the whole thing and start over, do you try to repair the part thats no good anymore. Do you try to save the good part throw away the bad part. Can't ignore it forever and the bureaucracy doesn't seen to have an interest, but if anyone wants to have an interest, that person has to jump through a lot of hoops to try to do anything positive or negative to it and the bureaucracy has to have there 40 pieces of silver and give you their permission. So the only thing left is Clintons' "Don't ask don't tell"attitude . It might be years before anyone getting paid to pay attention would even notice if it was repaired and put back into business. Even tho now we have Walmarts "If you see something-Say something" policy to deal with. Only thing a guy can do is get outta town, or have a good lock on your door. The best thing we have here is, the roads leading in and out of the area all have bridges across deep rivers. and the area is not well populated ....And there is a lot of game and its very good garden geography. With lakes and streams and plenty of sunshine. Its a good place for me to be! Have you found a person with more knowledge if the Cherokee language. I've found several dictionary's but they don't all agree with each other and all I have is expressions from my grandmother. She had a lot to say in American English, but only had expressions from her mother, who knows what was lost in between. One of my regular customers uses the Cherokee language from lessons but I don't remember anything my grandmother saying being the same . My Grandmother is on the rolls in Oklahoma but she didn't like the New Nation....If anyone tells you they are pure Cherokee, know this, theres none in the nation other then there in the Cherokee nation, there are few that could pass a blood test. Those Scots and Irish were every where. My name is everywhere in Oklahoma, street signs, politicians, family name, buildings....But its only my name...not me. But then, my name is so common its everywhere....those Scotts where every where. Its just I ended up more Cherokee then Scott. Hope things are working in your search...I'm gone for the day Gray Bear
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Post by seeker on Feb 25, 2011 17:29:40 GMT -6
I think the Nations must follow a small group of leaders elected by the tribes. Beyond that, I think they must use every legal way to tie up government hands. They then must all STAND and claim their Locations as THEIR OWN. They must DEMAND FAIR, EQUAL treatments and recogniction. YES it had been hals way tried in the past but by few not many. Durring the ARM movement the government was shaken, fearful. But our OWN PEOPLE devided and fought against one another based on the old so called PRIDE issues of which tribe is better than another. The individuals must show, teach the younger ones how real the lies have been. Groom them for the LEGAL WORDS taught in schools such as HARVARD and YALE. Show them another real way to fight. We seem to always become lost with greed and acceptance before our losses and our suffering. What could be instead of what IS. Knowledge is POWER, but without MONEY to drive the wagon it is empty. When dealing with Buffalo Herds, you must learn their way of travel, fight and of fleeing. Only then will you be sucessful in your need of food. As so it is when dealing with The Government. EXAMPLE: I know several who need disability due to horrible problems but have been denied for years. When I found myself in this need, I studied the way the GOVERNMENT fought it and the way they had flee it. I looked for months to find the right legal representitive who listiened to me and how I wanted to fight. She filed for me and when they begain their attack with phone interviews, I made sure I was ready with what they wanted to hear. From start to finish took 90 days. I was ACCEPTED for my Social Security Disability with 1 year back pay and medicare as well. Our people have always seen PRIDE, POWER and MUSCLE along with FEAR as a way to fight. Perhaps great against each other in the early years, but their are better ways to fight. We need to make the young know their heritage and ways of the elders but also that the ways of today must be met with wisdom, abilities and willingness to win. To continue the trail until it is NO MORE. That this is the real PRIDE for today's NATIONS WARRIORS. Not the bow and arrow, Not the Drugs and Lazy habits, Not the Jail time but the breif case filled with LEGAL TRUTHS backed by the CASINO monies they have givin us for that fight. We look to the WOLF as a great important inity, then think like the wolf . Be smart, cunning and direct without giving yourself away. Work UNITED as a pack and realize that those whom direct the pray into the zone are as important as the one who strikes the hit. Be as many of the sacred ones, strike quick like the rattlesnake, strike from many directions like above of the Eagle, from the bushes like the Wolf, from below like the Badger and with power like the Bear. Justice is as dieing as the ways of life of the old ways. The courts do not seek justice but solutions based on trends, how the game is played and corruption steeped in money. We must addapt the ways of their world in order to acheive our world. Once we do, they will not act as they have before simply based on the "Trends of the times". We just have not shown them anything to see as real and united. They still see us as drunken, defeated ignorant natives. Just like they think of the Celts in Ireland or the Wicca people. EMEMBER: They feared the "GHOST DANCE" so much they outlawed it and Killed all who performed it. The problems lie with US. The parents, the Young and the ELDERS for not establishing spiritual control. Elders are smart. USE that wisdom for things other than memories. Again, my grandfather use to say "He who says I should have, will never". "Do not wish of what has been, but do what will be". My grand Father claimed this was said by Heavy Eagle who use to tell him this was his Great Grand mother............who spoke Cherokee 95% of the time only.......
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